Roundtable: How do you build a fanbase in Tampa Bay?
Sharing a recent dialogue from the DRaysBay slack chat.
Austin Reimann
I’ve said it before, but I have really enjoyed watching the Bucs front office the last couple of years. I know there is a cap and it is completely different, but it will be cool when Evans retires a Buc. It will be cool when Lavonte retires a Buc. Especially after watching them for over a decade. It will be cool when they go in the ring of honor and HOF amongst a bunch of other franchise greats.
Again, I know it is apples to oranges. But… it is really fun to turn on 620 and listen to the guys on the radio talk about guys being local legends and here to stay. Would be so cool to hear that about the Rays one day.
Even more so now as a dad and as Bennett starts to grow up (and hopefully like baseball). Luckily Longo was a Ray for my prime childhood baseball fandom years and was my baseball hero… but as a new generation of Rays fans begin to grow up and are raised by parents who also grew up Rays fans, it would be nice to see the Rays ownership retain some key guys every once and a while like the Bucs have recently.
Darby Robinson
The big key with the Bucs is they also are shrewd and not overly sentimental. Davis and Evans are back because they are still playing at an elite level. Shaq and White are gone because they aren’t
Austin Reimann
Agreed, and it’s a fine line. Like I know hanging on to Longo would have been less than glamorous these last few years, but there is just something about that walk up song.
And, I do like winning more than I like hanging on to guys. But, I do think there is a gray area (potentially) where you can do both within reason and help develop a fanbase.
Darby Robinson
It’s tricky. Currently with Wander gone for good, there’s not many guys I think could fit the mode of wanting for super long term. Randy is the most fun but big risk of aging poorly. Perhaps Caminero is the next big potential one to lock in though.
Austin Reimann
And I know it’s irrational but it would be fun to have an ownership group that every once and a while says “Let’s bring back a homegrown Cy Young Winner who everyone loved and we can pay him 15M this year while our future Cy Young winner recovers from TJ. We will throw a 17M signing bonus at him in ‘26, and if he gets hurt in ‘24, f— it we eat 31M in ‘25”
Darby Robinson
Turns out there wasn’t many ownership groups willing to do that (plus add a draft pick).
But I hear you. Clearly finances wise we are what we are given the disastrously awful stadium and attendance, and revenue. It’s really all about when the rays move into a new place. Doesn’t matter where that place is. But nothing can or will change until that.
Austin Reimann
Agreed there. I do think there is a discussion to be had regarding this next generation of Rays fans being raised by a generation of Rays fans who grew up as Rays fans for the first time.
These next 2 decades, if I had to guess, are what would make or break a newer team’s following.
And then, if that is the case, how do you balance that with winning. Does my generation who will raise the next generation of Rays fans care about winning if the World Series roster is torn to shreds months later? Or, do they want a balance of winning and having a reason to go to the ballpark other than winning (franchise greats, fan favorites, etc)?
I don’t know what the correct answer is, but I think it is an immensely important and pivotal time for the Rays with regards to building and sustaining a fanbase.
And building/sustaining a franchise is not as black and white as, “just go win championships.”
Darby Robinson
I think it can only work in baseball when you get players good enough to be those cornerstones who can do both. Be the players who can be consistently great, and also bring folks out. I just don’t know if fans will come out to watch familiar 75 wins.
It’s also possible that it’s just impossible in St Pete because Florida is too transplanted. Maybe the Rays get a new stadium, have Caminero for 10 years, JLowe for 9, Xavier Isaac for 10 and they are consistently winning, and have a solid 23rd best attendance with 20K average and that’s the upper limit.
Austin Reimann
Also could be very true.
Idk… it’s also different for us as avid baseball fans. I’ll sit down and turn on Towson v Davidson play a 9 inning game and not have any idea who any of the players are and not care one bit. I’ll always pay for the product of baseball, regardless of roster. Because… it’s baseball.
However, I’m not sure other people or other families can say the same.
Darby Robinson
Baseball also is such a tough sport for fans. Maybe only Caminero plus a good team is enough for folks to casually show up to.
Austin Reimann
Little Johnny isn’t asking to go to the game because the Rays won 99 games last year. He wants to go watch his favorite player Brandon Lowe because he also plays 2nd base…Oh wait, Brandon Lowe was traded in the off season because he was getting too expensive and he was at max value. And you can’t make front office decisions because of little Johnny, however, I do think you could strike a balance and build a fan base as a result.
Elizabeth Strom
The ideal is the Lightning, consistent winners who keep a core of great players, but hockey rules make it more feasible to do that.
Darby Robinson
I just don’t know if the core matters as much as we think. Looking at the attendance you have only 3 seasons above 20K (2008-2010) and after that just 15-18K. And it got to the 15K before Longoria was traded. We didn’t even see a huge drop in attendance after that. Basically settling at 15K for the two years prior and two years after (slight dip after trade but not cratering).
Looking at the attendance I see only times they did well were when baseball was something “new”. Inaugural year was best, and then internal run as contenders. After both it just dropped because maybe Florida fans are just fickle and there’s not enough of the hard-cores.
Austin Reimann
Agreed, but does that change now as you have people like myself who were born/raised here who will start to have families. Like this is a prime fanbase growth period (I’m guessing) for a relatively new franchise. Like, this is the sweet spot now.
Darby Robinson
I think fan favorites and having known entities matter in sports, no doubt. And if you can have both stars the fans love and a winning club then that’s the ticket. But maybe not in St Pete?
Austin Reimann
Now you are catering to a population of people who were raised on Rays baseball, vs people who just happened to be here when it arrived.
Darby Robinson
Seattle is a good comp though. They have had several amazing legends that fans grew to love. But none were lifetime stars on the team besides Edgar.
Ian Malinowski
Do Bucs fans feel the same way about Evans and David if they also re-sign Jameis and he keeps throwing interceptions and they remain a fringe playoff team?
That’s a legit question, not rhetorical. I’m not sure.
Brett Rutherford
About Evans and David specifically? They were both Ring of Honor players before the Brady era. I think the franchise is looked at differently though.
I also don’t know if Jason Licht would still be your GM.
It’s not just the Rays though. It’s so rare for a player to stay with one team for 7+ years now. The Rays have historically kept their very best, franchise cornerstone players past their arbitration years. And signed other difference makers to team-friendly extensions. That’s what I want to see.
I want to see Brandon Lowe in a Rays uniform now, but not three years from now when he can’t hit. If roster spots were infinite you might push harder to sign Randy long term.
Danny Russell
It’s because roster spots are finite that you should try to keep your Randy’s and your Longo’s for as long as you can. Teams being good are not a given (hello 2009 Rays), just like teams being bad is not a given (hello 2023 Diamondbacks). You owe it to your loyal customers to keep players they love on the field, especially if you’re not going to get a return worth putting on the field.
I could see trading Randy, if only because there’s risk in letting the good times roll, and he’s worth enough to return some players of serious value, but if you wait two years and the trade him for something inconsequential just to save a buck, then what good have you accomplished?