The Rock Hall’s Top Boss Has a Method Behind the Madness
Depending on whom you ask, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is an honor, a scam, or — in one case — a “piss stain.” But chairman John Sykes, who’s held the position since 2020, believes his organization’s annual induction ceremony has stealthily crept up to become music’s highest honor. “Artists care so much about getting in because there’s not a lot of their peers in there,” he says, days before the newest inductee class will air as a condensed ABC special on January 1. (A full livestream of the ceremony premiered on Disney+ back in October.) Under his tutelage, the Rock Hall has made meaningful changes in response to its loudest criticisms, such as admitting more women — Mary J. Blige, Cher, Dionne Warwick, and Big Mama Thorton are among the 2024 class — and loosening the definition of what rock and roll can be.
But one aspect of the Rock Hall has remained elusive since it was established. When the nominating committee gathers every year to make the ballot, what the hell goes down in that room? In the spirit of transparency, Sykes went into detail about what the nomination process entails and the disputes that inevitably occur when dozens of members are campaigning for their top choices. He likens it to the closest thing the organization can get to a democratic system, even if it leans, at times, into the absurd. “My job is to respect everyone’s opinion, allow everyone to disagree and then accept the decision that their peers make,” he says. “Everyone’s voice gets heard, but because music is so subjective, there’s always going to be questions about who got in and who didn’t.”
With the Rock Hall now choosing to have a more interpretive definition of “rock” music, there’s a loud contingent who believe the organization should, at this point, change its name to the Music Hall of Fame. Do you understand why they feel that way?
Yes, and I think it’s because some people don’t understand the meaning of rock and roll. If you go back to the original sound in the ’50s, it was everything. As Missy Elliot calls it, it was a gumbo. It just became known as rock and roll. So when I hear people say, “You should just change it to the Music Hall of Fame,” rock and roll has pretty much covered all of that territory. Rather than throwing the name out, it’s doing a better job of communicating to people where rock and roll came from and what it’s truly about. Once they hear it that way, they understand.
The best story to convey this was when a great friend of mine, Jay-Z, got inducted a few years ago. I was so excited. But he told me, “Rock is dead. It should be called the Hip-Hop Hall of Fame.” And I said, “Well, hip-hop is rock and roll.” He goes, “No, it isn’t.” And I said, “We’ve got to do a better job explaining it. Little Richard, Otis Redding, Chuck Berry — these artists were the cornerstones of rock and roll. If you look at the sounds over the years, those artists ended up influencing hip-hop.” Jay-Z hemmed and hawed, but he showed up to the ceremony. That made me feel like we had done our job to communicate that rock and roll is open to all.
How long does the nominating committee meet to decide the annual shortlist? Is it kind of a Conclave situation, where everyone is slyly stumping for their favorite artists and trying to curry favor for their picks?
I call the annual nominating committee a cross between an intellectual conversation and WWE. It’s not a beautifully organized or wonderful meeting. It goes on for hours. It all just depends when people decide to stop fighting for their artists they want to get in. There are about 30 people. The nominating committee is very passionate about who they want. This is not something they just think about in the taxi ride over to the meeting. They really come prepared with their artists and why they deserve it. It’s not about just record sales or the amount of hits.
The meeting takes place in January, and it could be a movie in itself, but we decided not to let any cameras in. The committee is artists, journalists, critics, and executives. Sheryl Crow just joined as a member. Dave Grohl, Tom Morello, and Questlove are there. There’s no way you could fix the ballot in that room because it’s very diverse and there are checkpoints every way around. These are not people who give in easily. I guess what I’m saying is that this is a democratic process. There are no backroom decisions. People fight it out.
Are there term limits on who joins the nominating committee?
There’s no official set of term limits right now. But the head of the nominating committee is responsible for keeping that committee relevant to the artists we’re inducting. We need a committee that understands and represents those artists. We need to make sure that we’re checking all aspects of gender, race, age, and everything else. There’s not one set of rules, it’s just having people who understand the music. A big move of that was a couple of years ago with hip-hop. We needed people who understood hip-hop as a juggernaut moving through, affecting, and reinventing rock and roll.
Settle this for me: Do artists who are outspoken about wanting to get in, and are pissy that they haven’t yet been recognized, diminish their chances?
Not really, because there’s so few artists who can get inducted. You make a few artists happy and a lot upset every year because there’s just not enough room. But we always say to artists who get upset that it’s not over yet. There’s always a chance they could get inducted in the future. It’s in no way disrespectful to them. This year, we were so excited that Cher got in. We put in her induction tape an interview she did a few years ago about not getting in. She said, “Fuck the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.” She had a good laugh about it.
A key narrative that emerged from the 2024 ceremony came from, of all artists, Foreigner. Lou Gramm, its original lead singer, expressed anger that musicians were chosen to perform for the band in his place. What’s the rationale for someone like Kelly Clarkson performing when the band itself is eager and willing to do so?
There’s no set rule about performances and it’s usually determined by who’s available. For example, Dave Matthews Band was completely together and touring. We didn’t need anyone to play with Dave Matthews Band unless they wanted to bring someone up. Stevie Nicks sang and brought Harry Styles to sing with her when she was inducted, just because of the long-standing tradition. Harry Styles loved Fleetwood Mac, so he said, “I want to go play.”
In the case of Foreigner, there wasn’t an original band being together. Mick Jones, sadly, wasn’t feeling well and couldn’t attend. The Foreigner that’s currently touring consists of all new members. Lou was there, but there wasn’t a band. So we had to put a performance together. Lou got up and sang with them and killed it with his one song. It was a specific case.
The 2024 ceremony also didn’t feature a super-jam, which is becoming less prevalent as the years go by despite being a tradition of sorts. Why is that?
If there had been the right artists coming together for a super-jam, we would’ve definitely done it. But we don’t try to do one every year anymore because it’s got to be great every time. There were many moments like that across the ceremony. A Tribe Called Quest almost felt like an end jam with all those artists coming out — same with Foreigner and Ozzy. We’ve found that within the actual show, all of a sudden, these jams just happen. The Jimmy Buffett tribute, which wasn’t exactly a “jam,” had Kenny Chesney, James Taylor, and Dave Matthews. Next year, we’ll do one if there’s the right opportunity. Believe me, there are times when we’ve asked in the past and couldn’t get the artists. We can’t force anything.
This year’s ceremony was the longest, I believe, in the history of the organization at five and a half hours. Do you fear you’re beginning to induct too many artists?
Just tell me if anyone on the list of inductees doesn’t belong there, and I’ll acquiesce. But every time people come back and say, “Well, yeah, MC5 should’ve been in a while ago. John Mayall, wow, he’s finally in there.” Everyone in there deserves it. So whether we have some years a few or some years a lot, it really depends on the nominating committee and how they feel. The one great thing about having this partnership with Disney is they don’t care. They’re like, “Let’s keep the cameras rolling.”
What’s your biggest ambition for the future of the organization? For example, would you ever introduce a new side category for induction or change eligibility requirements?
We’ve discussed ways we could recognize not only artists but those around them who’ve had an impact on the sound of rock and roll. Fans often don’t even know who helped break these artists. It could be record-company presidents, it could be lawyers, it could be agents. We also want to look at specific songs that change culture. That could be another category.
I’d love to bring up a few artists who’ve never been nominated for induction, just to gauge your response about their chances. Would you mind indulging me with a few names?
It’s a Sonny Liston–and–Muhammad Ali knockout punch. I’ll write these down, by the way.
The B-52’s.
The B-52’s have come up in the room. There are two hurdles you have to get over as an artist. First, you’ve got to get through those 30 nominating-committee members and then you’ve got to get to the 1,200 general voters. Which, again, they’re not just people on the street corner. Bono votes; Paul McCartney votes. They’re inductees themselves. It’s a pretty blue-ribbon panel of inductees. We’ve heard passionate pleas for them but they just haven’t made it onto the ballot yet, but I think they will one day.
Phil Collins as a solo artist.
He’s come up in meetings so much. What happens to great artists like Phil Collins, and I could name about four or five more, is that the committee will sometimes say, “He’s already in with Genesis.” We have such a backlog of people that need to get in that sometimes great solo artists like Phil can’t get on the ballot because there’s someone who’s not on in any configuration. I’ll say right now that’s no excuse for not putting Phil Collins in because he’s a great artist. There are 27 artists who are in twice. Ozzy Osbourne, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Paul Simon, all the Beatles. I’m a voter, and I really believe Sting should be in as a solo artist. I’ve nominated him many times, and I’m the chairman. That shows how this isn’t some backroom organization where decisions are made by a couple of people. People vote on these things, and they fight like hell. So I think Phil is deserving.
“Weird Al” Yankovic.
“Weird Al” has come up in conversations. He’s a genius. He has made brilliant versions of the songs, but I’ll be honest:He’s never made it close to the ballot.
The Pixies.
Yes, the Pixies have been discussed. There’s been a group of nominees who’ve been passionate about the Pixies. The same thing with Warren Zevon, who actually did get on the ballot one year. I’m passionate about Warren, and he’ll get in, too. But the Pixies have had a lot of support. I’m going to throw in one who hasn’t gotten in, even though a lot of people have brought up and I’d be supportive of. Any guesses?
Surprise me.
Joe Cocker. He hasn’t been able to get through, and I think he’s a deserving name. See, I’m going to get in a lot of trouble for doing this interview because there’s a lot of people who should be getting in. There’s an amazing number of artists out there. But to your point about people who say, “You’re putting too many people in.” People also say, “You’re not putting enough people in.” I love this job, but it can be thankless at times because you can’t get everyone. Look at the names of the 2024 class. How do you not put these people in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Yet there’s still more we got to put in, which is why in January we’re going to sit down in New York City, close the doors for five hours, and get into a good old-fashioned shouting match.
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