Mike Pence's 'tortured soul' testimony will play well to a jury in Trump cases: expert

Former Vice President Mike Pence's internal struggle around being pressured to illegally overturn the 2020 presidential election will be a powerful piece of evidence for a jury in former President Donald Trump's criminal cases, argued former prosecutor Kristy Greenberg on Tuesday's edition of MSNBC's "The Beat."

This comes amid new reporting about Pence's actions around January 6, including that he considered skipping out on presiding over the electoral count altogether.

"I think there is a challenge for [special counsel] Jack Smith ... for all the bananas, circus stuff, and what it was in service of," said anchor Ari Melber, himself an attorney. "So, Donald Trump has talked crazy — wild or crazy — about many topics. Not always important ones. This was important. The committee, I want to show, looked at the all the ways he was attacking Pence as easily — it's easily possible to start feeling like this is a Beltway coup edition of 'Real Housewives,' with all these people who deserve each other fighting and calling each other names. How do you take this to a jury and make it matter? Let's look at that sound."

Melber played clips of multiple people testifying they had heard Trump refer to Pence with terms like "wimp" and "p--sy" as he struggled with the illegal acts he was being pressured to do.

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"So, that plays one way, and we can discuss that and the misogyny of it and plays on the internet, but this isn't a discussion about what's proper speech," said Melber. "This is about whether the pressure campaign against Pence, all those things combined with the public pressure, was in service of the coup. How do you explain that to a jury and not have them get lost in the drama of it?"

"Again, I think you need credible witnesses to tell the story, to play out," said Greenberg. "What was this campaign? What were the things being said? And what was the effect on Mike Pence? Again, you know ... there is this conversation that Pence really is having with his son, who's a Marine, and says, we both took the same oath to uphold the Constitution, so you have to show up. I mean, that's going to play very well to a jury, this tortured soul trying to figure out what to do when he's got this pressure campaign on him. What is the right thing to do?"

Watch the video below or at the link.

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